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I need to know from a qualified Doctor not an RN about the ...

Sent to Health Experts March 29 01:53 PM

I need to know from a qualified Doctor not an RN about the expectations of my Bursitis . How long it may last I've went to Doctor and all he's doing is giving me Ibuprofren and referring to a Physical Therapist Shouldn't I be taking A Ultrasound? I now have a popping noise occassionally in my knee and I have a lot aof pain. I have a handicapp daughter who is quadraplegic and there has been a lot of liofting over 20 years. Just until this last year we had to get a lift for her. I

Customer (name blocked for privacy)
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March 29 5:27 PM (3 hours and 33 minutes and 37 seconds later)
         
REPLIEDCheck Mark
It will take approximately 6 weeks for the swelling and pain of the bursitis in your knee to go away; however, since you recently started hearing your knee making a "popping noise" then you have sustained an anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) injury secondary to your bursitis. Your knee might feel like it is going to "give way" when you put any weight on it. This happens when you've ruptured, torn, or sprained the ligament in your knee. An MRI will show that you have injured your ACL. Anterior cruciate injuries usually require knee replacement surgery.

In the meantime treat your bursitis with rest, ice, compression, and elevation.

Wrap your knee in an elastic-type ACE wrap to lessen swelling and pain. Then rest with your leg/knee above your heart and apply ice every 20 minutes. You can apply warm moist heat if your knee is not swollen. Never apply heat to your knee if it is inflamed.

Take Advil, Motrin, or Tylenol for pain.

A knee-brace can help stabilize your knee so that you can gradually tolerate increased weight-bearing.

I hope my information is helpful. If you have additional questions I will gladly answer them, otherwise please click the green "ACCEPT" button. "POSITIVE FEEDBACK" and a "BONUS" would be greatly appreciated.

Dr. H


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March 30 12:58 AM (7 hours and 30 minutes and 53 seconds later)
         
Reply to Dr. Hanson's Post: My Doctor told me over the phone today dono't worry about the popping and when I mentioned a ultra sound he said that might in flame the inflammation more. I don't know what to do everything sounds so contradictory to the other. My Doctor doesn't want to give me a cortisone shot because he feels its like putting on a bandage and something about the shots. I've had this since Februrary 14th and I'm beginning to worry some. Can't do much of anything. The Doctor also said to try and move it as much as possible but its so sore and because I'm on hypertension medicine he's trying to b e careful.
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March 30 3:48 AM (2 hours and 50 minutes and 15 seconds later)
         
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The ultimate judgment regarding any specific clinical procedure or treatment must be made by your personal physician in light of your individual circumstances e.g. your physical exam, your history, etc. Each person is different regarding the time it takes for their body to recover from trauma, inflammation, or tolerate a procedure. It really sounds like your physician has your best interests in mind.

You can ask your physician for a referral to a rheumatologist. A rheumatologist is an internist who has additional training and experience in the diagnosis and treatment of arthritis and other diseases of the joints, muscles, and bones including musculoskeletal pain disorders and osteoporosis. Rheumatologists are specially trained to find the cause of swelling and pain. It's important to determine a correct diagnosis so that you can receive appropriate treatment.

In my practice I have found that therapeutic ultrasound and cortisone injections relieve pain and inflammation along with a comprehensive rehab program of physical therapy. Most patients respond well to ultrasound therapy. Cortisone mixed with Lidocaine or Marcaine is injected into the joint of the knee to reduce inflammation and pain. The shot usually works within an hour and the effect lasts several weeks. Patients usually have decreased pain and increased range of motion of their knee which allows them to progress in an individualized comprehensive rehabilitation program.

Treatment for knee inflammation uses the RICE protocol which I gave to you in my previous answer (rest, ice, compression, elevation).

I recommend that you try a relaxing warm bath or a whirlpool treatment daily to relieve your knee pain.

I understand your dilemma. I advise that you find a physician who can help you find appropriate relief from your pain. Nobody should have to suffer for 7 weeks with knee pain.

I hope my information is helpful. If you have additional questions I will gladly answer them, otherwise please click the green "ACCEPT" button. "POSITIVE FEEDBACK" and a "BONUS" would be greatly appreciated.

Dr. H

Edited by morekare on March 30 2006 at 3:58 AM



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March 31 8:44 PM (1 day and 16 hours later)
         
Relist: I still need help.
Dr.Hansen, you mentioned not using heat if there is inflammation/swelling if this was done in the begining did I add insult or agravation to my knee are? I was using a heating pad and Icy Hot ointment, Can I use Icy hot even so at this time? That would help me to sleep. Anyway I'm okay with the elevation but to try and get up it really hurts like hell. . I tried the extra warm bath and that does feel good. I'm going to fight to be referred to a Rheumatologist but having a Kaiser Permenete HMO is like pulling teeth trying to get a referral how much does a private opinion usually run monetary wise? And do using crutches benefit anything? He doesn't want me to use a wheelchair because he say's the resticting me using my muscles HELP I am going to really push seeing a internist for this come hell or high water!
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March 31 11:32 PM (2 hours and 47 minutes and 38 seconds later)
         
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#1---"not using heat if there is inflammation/swelling if this was done in the begining did I add insult or agravation to my knee are? I was using a heating pad and Icy Hot ointment"

Redness, swelling, pain, and heat are the four signs of inflammation which is your body's healing response to damaged tissue. Blood flow increases to allow more immune cells cytokines and nutrients to reach damaged tissues. When inflammation is present (no matter when or for whatever reason) then the cells lining blood vessels allow large protein molecules and water to escape the bloodstream and enter the inflamed tissue resulting in swelling. Swollen tissue presses on nerves in your knee causing pain. Therefore, logically, you want to avoid the pain by reducing the inflammatory response (swelling and heat) not increasing it. Adding heat to a hot swollen red painful knee will increase the inflammatory response resulting in more damage to the tissue and pain. This is why I advise my patients never to apply heat to a swollen joint. Once the swelling has gone down, then heat can be applied. Heat is comforting to a non-inflamed joint because it helps to increase the circulating blood flow to heal the damaged joint. Just remember never apply heat to an inflamed area. Once inflammation is gone then heat is all right.

#2---Can I use Icy hot even so at this time? That would help me to sleep.

Icy Hot contains methyl salicylate (30%) and menthol (10%) which are rubefacients that cause dilation of the capillaries and an increase in blood circulation. If your knee is no longer swollen then certainly you can use Icy Hot. However, do not use Icy Hot or a heating pad if you have an inflamed swollen knee or you will cause more swelling and pain.

#3---"I'm going to fight to be referred to a Rheumatologist but having a Kaiser Permenete HMO is like pulling teeth trying to get a referral"

Telephone your personal physician at Kaiser on Monday morning and politely remind them that a rheumatology referral is strongly recommended when a patient's pain persists for more than 6 weeks. Tell them that the cost effectiveness of a rheumatology consult far outweighs the consequences of a non-treated knee problem. Persistent inflammation and pain beyond 6 weeks indicates a joint problem that only a rheumatologist is sufficiently capable of diagnosing and treating effectively. Tell them that the cost of your incapacitation due to their lack of response to your complaints of pain are significant. Your income has been affected. Your emotional well-being is affected by constant pain. Your family, including your disabled daughter, has been affected by your immobility and your pain. The consequences of Kaiser's inattentive attitude have been costly for you and your family.

If your physician will not give you a referral, for whatever reason, then telephone the Medical Director of Patient Care Services and explain that you have spent the last 7 1/2 weeks with severe unrelenting knee pain. The pain is over-whelming and incapacitating. You have not received appropriate treatment by your attending physician. Tell the Director if Kaiser won't treat your pain then you will go outside of the Kaiser HMO to receive treatment. The outside physician will bill Kaiser for their second opinion and their subsequent appropriate treatment for your knee.

An anterior cruciate ligament tear is a serious injury leading to destabilization of the knee. Price Range: low = $ 11,767 high = $ 13,072

#4---"how much does a private opinion usually run monetary wise?"

The cost of a second opinion is variable based upon who you are receiving the opinion from.

The AMA endorses the principle that it is appropriate to provide payment for a second opinion when medically necessary or required by Medicare. (Res. 65, A-87; Modified: Sunset Report, I-97). Kaiser receives Medicare funding; therefore they must abide by Federal Medicare guidelines and pay for your second opinion.

When you tell your doctor that you want a second opinion then your doctor will send your medical records to the doctor giving you the second opinion. That way, you may not have to repeat the tests you already had.

During the visit for a second opinion, be sure that your new doctor knows what tests you have had and that you specifically want to discuss the appropriateness of having surgery on your knee or at least injections of corticosteroids/analgesia and ultrasound treatments with more appropriate physical therapy including whirlpool treatments.

#5---"He doesn't want me to use a wheelchair because he say's the resticting me using my muscles"

The treatment for knee pain and inflammation is to rest the joint and avoid activities that aggravate the pain especially weight-bearing activities such as ambulating. Most patients cannot use crutches. They cannot balance sufficiently well to avoid placing weight on their injured painful knee.

I advise weight-bearing activities after your pain is controlled. It is ill-advised to use crutches to ambulate if you have a painful knee. A physician should treat your pain so that you can gradually participate in your individualized comprehensive physical therapy program. No two patients are alike. Each patient requires an individualized approach to returning him/her to their pre-injury state of health.

If you have additional questions I will gladly answer them.

Dr. H


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